Chesterfield MP Toby Perkins on opinions, sleepless nights, the town centre debate and Motor Fest

“And when people are misrepresenting the truth, I think you’re more likely to interrupt, and say ‘that’s just not right’… So you argue your case passionately, but you’re able to maintain a discipline. Just like most of us do in our lives. You know, you talk to someone in the pub, or round the kitchen table, and you might disagree with them, but you don’t fall out about it.”

This is Toby Perkins’ response when asked if he ever loses his temper in a debate. Toby has been MP for Chesterfield and Staveley since 2010, and his walk here began as a teenager.

“I think I have a natural affinity with the underdog… When I was growing up in the 80s there was a bit of a feeling that Labour was there for people who had no-one on their side.”

After watching Labour lose two elections, he felt he needed to do more, joining the party before the ’97 election to take an active role. His political work saw him elected onto the Rother council in 2003. A few short years later, he arrived at a volta moment.

“I was always Chesterfield focused. If I hadn’t been selected here in Chesterfield, I would have just accepted I wasn’t going to be an MP. It was the only seat I ever went for. So I was much more focused really, on being a good representative for Chesterfield, than necessarily making an active decision of saying ‘I want to be a politician’.”

And what makes you want to do what you do?

“I think lots of us, and you look at people’s reaction to the pandemic, lots of us have an instinct to want to try and help other people. It’s not by any means unique to me or to politicians, but this is a job in which you’re able to do that.

“Today we will have a surgery. And we’ve got seven or eight people coming in today, who will to one degree or another, have problems that are life-defining at this moment for them. And every day, myself and the staff that work for me, are able to make a difference for those people.

“It might be people that come in because they’re under threat of losing their children. It might be people come in because they’re under threat of losing their house. It might be people that aren’t able to get a house, and are living on people’s sofas. It might be people that can’t get hospital treatment that could make a difference to whether they will live or die.”

Behind Toby, is a wall of cards and kids’ hand-drawn pictures saying ‘thank you’. Toby smiles.

“I don’t keep those for self-aggrandisement, but because it shows every day the job that we have to do for people. The fact that people take the time and come in and say ‘Look, what you did made a difference to my life’, makes the whole job absolutely rewarding.”

Do you ever switch off?

“It is a job that’s pretty omnipresent in your mind. I think family and friends help and distract. I am someone that is capable of being in the moment, so at the moment we’re having this conversation, and this is the thing I’m thinking about… Of course, it is a job where you get sleepless nights.”

We chat about the town centre debates. Footfall, empty shops, quieter market days.

“It’s absolutely straight-forward. It’s shopping habits. You only have to look in any town centre in the country… The fact that retail is shrinking, is simply a fact.”

“Marks and Spencer shut seventy-five stores last year. That’s a fact. That’s not Chesterfield. Actually, we’re one of the few where they’ve expanded. Woolworths have disappeared off the high street. I could go through about a dozen names that are no longer there… Shopping habits have changed.”

What’s the answer?

“We need to reimagine our town centres. They’ve got to be destinations that we live in as well as shop in. They’ve got to be destinations for leisure. I think they’ve got to be destinations that people physically want to visit.”

“And that’s where the 1940s market, the artisan markets and so on, are so important, because if you’ve got a market which you can pretty much get in shops and on the internet, then you aren’t going to attract people in for that purpose.”

“So anyone that says ‘Well, it’s just about Chesterfield’, just hasn’t had a look anywhere else. They will see that everywhere. I think the council are innovative in terms of trying to bring people into our market, and attempting successfully to get funding to reshape our market.”

“We probably have more stalls than we need in terms of the shape of what’s available. We need to make sure that every stall is attractive. I think those stall-holders on the outside have got a great viewpoint. I think inside, maybe the stalls are a bit narrow. And given that we don’t need the space, I think the plans that the council have come up with have been absolutely in line with what’s needed.”

“I don’t think nostalgia helps at all. I think what we need to do is look in the 21st century… We need more people living in the town centre because that gives it life 24/7, rather than it just being about shopping or drinking.”

The conversation turns to the Motor Fest debate, a cancelled town centre draw that still hums with controversy.

“I would be very happy to meet the people who organised it, and get their perspective. They’re very welcome to come in here, because fundamentally, we all want the town centre to be busy.

“And the idea, the council who are going to considerable expense to bring people into our town centre, wouldn’t want something that achieves that, is clearly nonsense. But they do also have responsibilities for the safety of people, and for how everything operates.

“If you have an event of that size, then it needs to be properly organised… The council, as I understand it, reached out to Motor Fest with a view to working with them, to put it onto a more formal footing, but that request was rejected.”

“I would love those discussions to recommence, and for Motor Fest to be done, in a way that was considered to be entirely safe.”

Discussion seems important right now. When thrown a question about a time machine, the conversation ends with Toby putting himself on the Titanic, telling the captain to “slow down and watch out for icebergs”. The MP for Chesterfield laughs, joking “but maybe you wouldn’t want to be on the Titanic, in case he wasn’t listening to you?”

Listening also seems very important right now. And if the town centre really is a Titanic, what do we say to the captain?

Toby Perkins: “At a human level, you have to understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion.”